I came to the conclusion that "gender dysphoria" is a symptom not a cause independently of Dr Grossman, mainly because it is so flippin' obvious. In my previous life as a psychiatric nurse, and leaving out the few cases of anorexia for now, I dealt with just two cases of dysmorphia - one thought their intestine was not theirs, and the other thought their face was the wrong one. I both cases, it was a symptom of something else - the first, depression, and the second an unfortunately incurable brain lesion. No one ever thought "I know, let's tell them they are correct and help them (do dreadful things to themselves - I'm not going into details)". There is a huge self-harm component to the current trans fad as well. Coming back to my anorexia reference earlier, it is fairly well noted that anorexia in young people (girls and women, mainly) has dropped whilst "gender dysphoria" has increased. And I do understand (or, at least, I think I do) that pubertal girls may not like the changes that puberty brings. However, anorexia was regarded as a maladaptive response to that, whereas "trans" is fêted, causing untold harm. I don't think that the causality is the same for boys, and whilst I am reluctant to blame it all on porn, I'm not sure what boys are finding so awful about being men. Is there something in the rhetoric of the MGTOW argument that (to paraphrase) some men can't deal with strong women, and so they'd rather pretend to be women? I don't know, and would welcome thoughts.
I think with boys ( see the stats from the Tavistock) it is overwhelmingly effeminate boys ie. boys who will probably turn out to be gay. The causes : homophobic parents; bullying; peer pressure….
Appropriately perhaps the next film in the series is Brokeback Mountain where the two cowboys spend a lot of time trying to escape from their homosexuality!
Good points Jeremy. I think there is some evidence of porn having an effect but we are also demonising young boys and men with all the toxic masculinity stuff. And don’t shut up,it’s great to hear from you.
Great piece Dusty, well done. Lots of useful excerpts for further reading too. I can’t really discuss anything because I agree with you about it all but I’ll do a bit of nit picking if you like 😁. As I’ve mentioned before, I think the Jester, Kat Highsmith and Miriam Grossman are all saying the same thing…….that there’s underlying anxiety from a variety of causes in the recent surge in numbers but that Grossman calls those symptoms dysphoria for convenience and the Jester and Kat don’t use that word. If I have to come down on a side…😬…. I think it depends how angry I feel on a particular day. Please feel free to tell me that’s twaddle.
I was thinking of putting in a sentence that: 'In the end all three arrive at the same conclusion regardless of whether you think dysphoria is a thing ( a symptom) or is non-existent.' At the end of the day, at most, you treat the underlying cause. So I think we agree really 😁
You referred me to a recent Stella O'Malley podcast where she asks: 'What other condition( sic) in the DSM is treated with surgery'!!!! We really are in lobotomy territory, aren't we!!
This so bears comparison to the old witch hunts!!! The theory that mankind always advances is clearly b****cks! Look at the screaming TRAs and 'antifa' at Bristol LWS and you think 'We're back in Salem!'
Great, thanks Dusty. That makes sense. Mia referred to the symptom pool and that children are hearing about symptoms that they think they have and are then being told that what they have is dysphoria; whereas in the past, they may have been told a different diagnosis such as anorexia. It all depends on what’s ‘popular’ in the culture at any given time. Helen Joyce and Dr P have also referred to it. I think I might start using ‘body dysmorphia due to underlying anxiety’ instead because that covers everything. It’s a mouthful though and I can see why people use dysphoria.
It is difficult to know how to cover it when writing or speaking. If you refer to dysphoria you are referring to something that is in DSM-5 ( albeit they are now trying to depathologise it further by calling it 'gender incongruence') as an actual condition so it makes it sound as if you agree it is a condition. Clearly Dr Cass has accepted DSM-5 hook, line and sinker! I will ponder further - 'body dysmorphia' may be the way forward!! Thanks for the suggestion.
Yes, it’s tricky but we should try and avoid normalising the use of their words if possible. Cass is a huge disappointment although there are some benefits to the report. But if you remember, we were all concerned at the time about her language and how it could leave an open door for things to continue….
Heads up that this evening at 21.00 GMT Mr Menno is premiering an interview with a former member of the ( captured) breastfeeding charity, La Leche League.
Thank you!
I came to the conclusion that "gender dysphoria" is a symptom not a cause independently of Dr Grossman, mainly because it is so flippin' obvious. In my previous life as a psychiatric nurse, and leaving out the few cases of anorexia for now, I dealt with just two cases of dysmorphia - one thought their intestine was not theirs, and the other thought their face was the wrong one. I both cases, it was a symptom of something else - the first, depression, and the second an unfortunately incurable brain lesion. No one ever thought "I know, let's tell them they are correct and help them (do dreadful things to themselves - I'm not going into details)". There is a huge self-harm component to the current trans fad as well. Coming back to my anorexia reference earlier, it is fairly well noted that anorexia in young people (girls and women, mainly) has dropped whilst "gender dysphoria" has increased. And I do understand (or, at least, I think I do) that pubertal girls may not like the changes that puberty brings. However, anorexia was regarded as a maladaptive response to that, whereas "trans" is fêted, causing untold harm. I don't think that the causality is the same for boys, and whilst I am reluctant to blame it all on porn, I'm not sure what boys are finding so awful about being men. Is there something in the rhetoric of the MGTOW argument that (to paraphrase) some men can't deal with strong women, and so they'd rather pretend to be women? I don't know, and would welcome thoughts.
Right - shutting up now!
Hi Jeremy
Very interesting points, thanks v much.
I think with boys ( see the stats from the Tavistock) it is overwhelmingly effeminate boys ie. boys who will probably turn out to be gay. The causes : homophobic parents; bullying; peer pressure….
Appropriately perhaps the next film in the series is Brokeback Mountain where the two cowboys spend a lot of time trying to escape from their homosexuality!
Dusty
Yes, I should have put that in. Homophobia is not to be underestimated.
Good points Jeremy. I think there is some evidence of porn having an effect but we are also demonising young boys and men with all the toxic masculinity stuff. And don’t shut up,it’s great to hear from you.
Hear hear😀
Dusty
Great piece Dusty, well done. Lots of useful excerpts for further reading too. I can’t really discuss anything because I agree with you about it all but I’ll do a bit of nit picking if you like 😁. As I’ve mentioned before, I think the Jester, Kat Highsmith and Miriam Grossman are all saying the same thing…….that there’s underlying anxiety from a variety of causes in the recent surge in numbers but that Grossman calls those symptoms dysphoria for convenience and the Jester and Kat don’t use that word. If I have to come down on a side…😬…. I think it depends how angry I feel on a particular day. Please feel free to tell me that’s twaddle.
You're welcome, TT.
I was thinking of putting in a sentence that: 'In the end all three arrive at the same conclusion regardless of whether you think dysphoria is a thing ( a symptom) or is non-existent.' At the end of the day, at most, you treat the underlying cause. So I think we agree really 😁
You referred me to a recent Stella O'Malley podcast where she asks: 'What other condition( sic) in the DSM is treated with surgery'!!!! We really are in lobotomy territory, aren't we!!
This so bears comparison to the old witch hunts!!! The theory that mankind always advances is clearly b****cks! Look at the screaming TRAs and 'antifa' at Bristol LWS and you think 'We're back in Salem!'
Dusty
Great, thanks Dusty. That makes sense. Mia referred to the symptom pool and that children are hearing about symptoms that they think they have and are then being told that what they have is dysphoria; whereas in the past, they may have been told a different diagnosis such as anorexia. It all depends on what’s ‘popular’ in the culture at any given time. Helen Joyce and Dr P have also referred to it. I think I might start using ‘body dysmorphia due to underlying anxiety’ instead because that covers everything. It’s a mouthful though and I can see why people use dysphoria.
Hi TT
It is difficult to know how to cover it when writing or speaking. If you refer to dysphoria you are referring to something that is in DSM-5 ( albeit they are now trying to depathologise it further by calling it 'gender incongruence') as an actual condition so it makes it sound as if you agree it is a condition. Clearly Dr Cass has accepted DSM-5 hook, line and sinker! I will ponder further - 'body dysmorphia' may be the way forward!! Thanks for the suggestion.
Dusty
The power of a bunch of activists who met in a restaurant in New York ( or wherever they met)!!!!!!
A drag conference probably.
😂
Yes, it’s tricky but we should try and avoid normalising the use of their words if possible. Cass is a huge disappointment although there are some benefits to the report. But if you remember, we were all concerned at the time about her language and how it could leave an open door for things to continue….
Yes I thought she was just being polite to TRAs but it turns out she believes it all!!!!
Dusty
Great piece, thanks Dusty. It’s so helpful to analyse terminology like this because the ideology relies on the capture of language.
You're welcome, Becca.
You're absolutely right. They want to change the language. It is fundamental to them.
Dusty
Dear readers
Heads up that this evening at 21.00 GMT Mr Menno is premiering an interview with a former member of the ( captured) breastfeeding charity, La Leche League.
See some of you in the chat I hope 😊
Dusty